I love this country because we can have honest dialogue (if the people disagreeing with you are competent enough) about anything without fear of punishment of any kind, FCC withstanding. This is fantastic, however, the only problem that occurs is that some people think they know what they're talking about when they don't and really try to argue their point without realizing that what they're saying is both incorrect and embarrassing.
So, even though I appreciate the many responses and comments to my last article I wish the retorts against my sentiment were a little more heavy on the fact side. I will quickly respond to some of the "counterpoints" against my argument and re-explain why Barack Obama not only is the best Democratic nominee but also the best fit for the presidency of this lovely country.
There was some talk about Hillary Clinton being a woman. Well, until we get official word that she is not a succubus I will concede that fact. Be that as it may, I don't really feel that she being a woman is a bigger elephant in the room than the fact that Barack Obama is an African American. They're both pretty big elephants and I'll bet any amount of money that being black is a bigger obstacle in rural and southern America than being a woman. And guess what, that was part of my point from the last article. Read some articles about voters in rural Pennsylvania and there is a lot of talk about these towns coming from very bigoted roots and how some are still not completely in the 21st century as far as civil liberties go. There are, unfortunately, still a lot of people that have a problem with race. A bigger problem than sexism, unfortunately for my readers that think otherwise. So no, I don't think being a woman really hurts Hillary at all in this.
Also, I never insinuated that the media backed Hillary. What this comment was in response to was when I said this:
"Now as soon as Clinton hears this and the media hears this they realize that our overprotected prudish hears can't handle it and therefore must cry out. Well, Clinton and Fox News cry out. Everyone else reported the cries and made things worse because they need something to fill the space before next Tuesday's primary. Shame on all of them."
I did not intend to assume that the two parties were in cahoots. What I meant by this was that Clinton hears what Obama said and knows that her less than educated friends will think Obama means this in a derogatory way and knows it's a good soundbyte for her to put on her virtual bumper stickers. Similarly, the media realizes the same thing and knows it can get ratings by airing something he said, out of context, and spin it to make him look like an insensitive dick. This doesn't mean that the media is backing Hillary. It means they both know how to exploit something. That's not what we want out of our media or our president.
Moving on...
Someone else mentioned that Obama's comments came from a "misanalyzation" of a NY Times article about rural Pennsylvania and the lack of jobs. First of all, Obama is far too intelligent and has far too many intelligent people surrounding him to "misanalyze" something like this since it's so important to this primary. Secondly, why would he get his information from a newspaper? Don't you think he'd have people on the ground getting his information for him? Politicians on the campaign trail respond to articles about them, they don't use them to gather information. Those newspapers report on them. Oh and I used quotations because "misanalyze" or any derivation is not a real word and the commenter used it. See, I can exploit someone else's inadequacies too!
Anyway, this person goes on to say that Obama is "spitting in the faces" of these rural people because he wants to "socialize the country." Well, no, you're wrong. Hillary Clinton wants to socialize the country. If you read both of their health care plans you'll realize that within the 3% difference of their plans is the biggest point - and that is that the way she wants to cover everyone in this country is socialization whereas Obama wants to keep the current system but make everything less expensive so that people can afford health care. Which in turn would create universal health care without making you feel like you're in socialist society. Know the difference.
Another argument against Obama was that he is talking down to us. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it but it can still be factually wrong. When he speaks out for the little man, when his entire campaign is about government transparency and wanting the people to be apart of the government process again, he is speaking with and for the people. Not down to them. His entire "hope" message has been about uniting the country as a common people. That is why he is where he is today. That is why he's leading Clinton and, save for the Second Coming where Jesus flips the crazy switch and Hillary wins every remaining primary by a 70/30 split, will become the Democratic nominee.
I know this person said this, though, in response to the "bitter/cling" comment. And if one was to rush to comment against an online article then I could see why such a person would respond the way they did. Clinton and the media found a soundbyte they knew people that either already didn't like Obama or just wanted to find something to talk about would spin to make Barack look like a huge dick. And congratulations, that's exactly what those people did.
Here's the thing though, no matter how insulted middle America might be by that statement, it doesn't make it any less true. That's the simple fact of it. Again, that's the fact, not my opinion. My opinion is that it was, for the most part, an okay thing to say.
Here's where I will compromise though. I'm not going to be completely stubborn. I know, shocking, right? The one thing I will budge on is the word "cling."
The only thing Obama should have done differently is not use the word "cling." That's it. Not because it pissed people off but because it probably isn't true enough. Yea, I'm sure plenty of people are in love with their guns and in love with their religion and one or both are a huge part of their lives. Is there something wrong with that? Eh, that's a tough answer. I briefly touched on it in the last article and I'll say again that if it doesn't affect anyone else and it makes that person happy then go for it. Problem is that when these people apply the belief pattern that leads them to cling to guns and religion in the way I described to how they operate in the political world it affects everyone and that isn't cool.
Also, I guaran-damn-tee you that Obama did not mean that because people have lost their jobs that therefore they "cling to guns and religion." Those aren't a part of a cause and effect relationship. Anyone who isn't a part of the Jump-To-Conclusions Board would understand that.
Let's first acknowledge that the majority of people who lose their jobs (in general, not only in middle, rural America) become bitter about their government and the economy when their job is outsourced. And even more so when it's outsourced to a country where many of the locals flee to America illegally. You cannot tell me that that isn't the case. If I worked in a steel mill or a GM factory, etc., and lost my job of 25 years to Nicaragua and then realized a lot of Nicaraguans were coming into this country I'd be pretty pissed. But that doesn't mean that all of a sudden then I would decide I want to be really religious and shoot at things. That's not what Barack is saying. The vast majority of people in middle America already have a close relationship with guns and religion - that's just a part of the culture there. Being pissed off and bitter about losing your job to another country just adds salt to the wound.
Now what Barack is trying to say is that this situation is shitty. This situation needs to be fixed and he wants to fix it. He wants to help because he does care and guess what, he's campaigning for a job in which he can actually make some changes to help these people. He's not talking down to them. He was at a fundraiser in San Francisco, a place where there aren't a lot of people that understand the plight of rural America (note: too busy listening to the Grateful Dead and not trimming their pubes). He was there explaining what he's seen on the ground there and why he needs their help (mostly monetarily) so that he can become president so that he can therefore help middle America.
Lastly, being an "elitist." I said it last time and I'll say it again: what's the problem with being an elitist? Think about the root of the word - "elite". Dictionary.com tells me that means "the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons; persons of the highest class; representing the most choice or select; best."
What am I missing here? We as a nation want...pardon me, need a person that is better than all of us. If we wanted an average person, someone just like us, to lead the country we'd petition until George Bush was allowed unlimited terms in office. Unless you've been under a rock or are a really, really stubborn, moronic Republican you'll know that that hasn't worked out too well over the last 7.5 years.
I want someone better than me. I want someone who is smarter, better connected, richer, more compassionate, more willing to compromise, more willing to listen, and overall a better person. Barack Obama exemplifies all of those characteristics without being out of touch with those that he's better than. That's the difference between him and just about every other politician especially Hillary Clinton who has been in the game for far too long. She knows exactly what to say to trick regular Americans into thinking she really sympathizes with them. She's lied a million times and will continue to do so until regular Americans realize she's making them eat shit sandwiches. And personally, I like roast beef. The Clintons are far too proud and far too filled with a sense of entitlement to play nice or back down gracefully when they've been beaten...which they have been for the last two months.
So while using the word "cling" wasn't the best word choice, what Barack Obama said was, in the grand scheme of things, factually correct. His problem, if you can call it that, is that he assumes most of America is smart enough to realize he doesn't mean what Clinton and the ratings-hungry media want you to believe. And I know the media has been easy on Obama. But then again, it's hard to be hard on someone when they don't have many negatives going on. There's a reason millions of people have fallen in love with him. It's not an aberration. It's not trickery. It's not a scheme. It's a politician trying to have an honest dialogue with Americans as if we're all equal. Imagine that - an elite person having a quality discussion with regular Americans about the things that matter to them. So that when he has the opportunity to fix the government, we the people will have our voices heard. Yea, it's a novel concept I know. But I guarantee that if you open your eyes and strip away your cynicism you'll realize that this man, as blunt and honest as he is, is the right person to lead us on January 20, 2009 and beyond.
I might not have much faith, but I have faith in that.
4.21.2008
An Official Response - Why You're Wrong To Doubt Obama
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barack obama,
health care,
hillary clinton,
media,
president
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18 comments:
p.s. when Obama said they cling to their guns and their religion he was talking about it in terms of voting. He said that since they have lost so much faith in their government that they cling to specific things instead of looking at the bigger picture.
He said all politicians talk about more jobs and fixing the schools and healthcare, but year after year it never happens. Obama knows it, the American people known, and Obama knows the American people know it.
So he concluded that Americans have stopped trusting their government to change anything and instead cling onto a few core issues such as their right to own guns, abortions (aka religion), and immigration. That's why in elections it usually always comes down to "are they pro-life?", "are they anti-guns"?, or "what are they gonna do about immigration?" and NOT their education, intelligence, integrity, leading ability, etc.. and the past two elections proved that.
So again he wasn't looking down on anyone he was just pointing out the facts. If anything he was saying that American's don't trust politicians, therefore they vote/cling onto specific core things that they don't want to lose. That's not looking down to them, but instead pointing out their good intelligence and their lack of trust against politicians.
Where did I get this? From his speech the day after the bitter remark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCVbyjAP-RE&feature=related
First, I would like to respond to several comments left on the previous article which were clearly direct at my comment. What politician has not lied? Once again I will reiterate that I truly believe people (namely men) have turned on Hillary simply because she is a woman (and in the article you claimed racism is still a bigger problem than sexism which I will respectfully disagree with) however that argument is neither here nor there (although I will ask you to please do some research about current pay rates and rights, as well as take a historical look at suffrage, hmmm...who got it first, those part of the boys club). I also feel that you "boys" are jumping all over Hillary's lieing tendencies because women have been seen as liars since day one (let's remember Eve and the fruit). Even if you are not religious, it is impossible to deny that religion has shaped much of the societal stigmas and that mentality with regard to women premeates throughout our society. I love to hear people argue against one train of thought that doesn't support their opinion, and then turn around and emply the exact same logic to support their own ridiculous conclusions, which is basically what this whole rant is about. For example, stating that Obama will in essence make no mistakes because he is surrounded by such great minds is insane...if that were true, it could be said that EVERY candidate with resources is worthy of the job. Then to turn around and say that the Clinton, with all of the resources has been in the game too long it just illogical all around. I simply submit Hillary is the better candidate and those who disagree fine, but in my opinion, most people are just jumping on the "Obama" bandwagon because it is trendy. I ask you people to consider the role our President elect will play in the future Supreme Court Appointments and really think it through before throwing your vote at a trend.
"boy" said it maybe even better than me! haha. very well said, thank you for your response.
and anonymous, first off, i'd appreciate it if you had the proverbial huevos to attach a name to your clearly uber feminist babble. also, from now on i think we'd all appreciate it if you'd spell simple words like "permeate" and"imply" correctly if you want to be taken seriously.
also, no one is saying that obama will make no mistakes or that he has never lied. relative to his peers he is a godsend. that's the point. and when appointing supreme court justices i'd much prefer someone with integrity and honesty in the white house. people aren't picking on hillary for lying because she's a woman, we're picking on her because she and her husband have a history of lying to get what they want at whatever cost.
before you blanket my website with your pro-feminist agenda please have the decency to respect the intelligence of the rest of my readers. thank you.
Hey CPunch thought you were a Republican. Why don't you drop this whole political thing and talk about stuff you know about like sports and make up songs like "you can't rape the willing" or "coat hanger abortion" Obama sucks and now so do you. HILARY 2008!!
oh man, some people are so sad. first off, what i'm registered as, which is republican, you're right, does not mean i'm supposed to vote along party lines. same goes for democrats. it's just a label, sweetheart. as an educated american i'm going to vote for who i think is the most qualified no matter what party affiliation. when you grow up you'll realize that's how adults handle politics. and you may want to spell hillary's name correctly if you're going to badmouth obama in her name.
Hillary 08
As a woman, and one who is well over 30 (i might add) i have been in the corporate game long enough to tell you that yes, woman are second class to men, no doubt. Although we have seen a drastic change in the last 10 years, it is still there. Now, women are being promoted more often than they were back in the day (and i mean '80's-90's) but pay scales have not changed much. Be that as it may,and I know I am going to offend people with this one but women are still considered higher on the proverbial 'food chain' than African Americans. There are still way too many bigoted, racist, ignorant people in America. That you can take to the bank. Just drive down I-95 through Jersey into Maryland and down into Richmond, Virginia where a friend of mine lives. Yes it's a cool little metropolitan city - tapas bars, yuppies, beamers, and racism - lots of it. It still exists folks. Regardless of whether you are male or female, racism will outplay sexism in American any day.
Sorry I don't spell check my comments before I post them on the blog...didn't realize this was such a formal debate. Secondly, I post anonymously because I don't want to set up and account on here...but just so you know, it's Rach from UM. And third, I am simply trying to engage in your Cpunchworld, however, if my "feminist" ideas are not welcome here, I will take them elsewhere. I am simply trying to play devil's advocate pitting my beliefs against those of others which is supposed to encourage free thought and a market place of ideas, but if you just want a bunch of similarly minded people to post so you can all feel like you are right about your "opinions" then I will take my discussions elsewhere (also there are several anonymous bloggers on here, I'm not the only one writing this stuff...)
First off I think it's ridiculous that we are talking about race and gender still these days. I'm from Texas and look at these facts:
First Woman Elected as Governor in Texas:
Miriam Amanda Wallace Ferguson 1875
Female Senator in Texas since 1993
Kay Bailey Hutchinson
Just got elected for his third term in Houston
Lee Brown (black man)
Those are just the ones I know off hand. Texas a very racist and sexist labeled state elected a woman in 1875!! We in this country don't have a difficult time voting for blacks or females, but we should have a hard time electing blatant liars.
Let's not blindly vote with our party, race, or gender and instead look at the intelligence level, integrity, and competence of an individual, because in the end that should be what matters.
Alan C.
p.s. All you hillary supporters that want to vote for her just because she is a woman. please consider this. a woman will be elected President someday, but let's vote for the one that can get to the top with her integrity and merit and not one that uses lies and deception. let our first woman president be someone that outshines all the males and sets a great first example. don't worry she will come. let's not damage women everywhere by electing a woman that's so undeserving and that will make it that much harder to elect another. agreed?
Not voting for Hillary just because she is a woman...simply saying that I think it is funny how angry people are at the thought of her possibly winning the nomination and possibly winning the election. My personal desire for Hillary to win is based on her longstanding record of dedication and diplomacy in the political arena (some of you may laugh at that, but it's my opnion...oh yeah and let's leave Bill's indiscretions, and her reaction to those scandles out of it). My concern is the "chipping away" that has occurred against Roe v. Wade and a large grouping of rights mainly affecting women. I'm not saying Obama is the worst choice, or even a bad choice, however, the only way I will be voting for him is if he is on a ballet with Hillary. Also, Hillary is "just as good" (or as bad, if that's how you look at it) as all of the other candidates...why should we have to wait for a woman who "Outshines" the men...you are holding women to a higher standard and I don't think that is fair or logical. Last, I am from the south. In fact, I have lived in Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and spent plenty of time in the surrounding areas. I am aware of the discrimination based on both race and sex, that occurs in the south, as well as in other more "liberal" states (let's not pretend that it doesn't happen in the northern states too). In response to the comment about Texas...a woman in 1875...if you've done your research, which it sounds like you have, women were allowed to partake in politics and decision making in the southwest and west in general because the townships were spread out and there was so much open space, men had to allow women to be a part, otherwise their entire livliehood would fall apart. In accordance, women were treated well compared to elsewhere and were respected. What I am getting at by partaking in this whole blog debate is that anyone who is interested in securing the rights of women...which I feel is a legitimate concern whether male or female...should consider Hillary. I am not saying you shouldn't vote for Obama if you believe he is the man, but don't feed into the media frenzy. Do we all (or most of us) want change? Yes...but just because Obama has the shortest track record and therefore less scandal behind him does not automatically make him the best mechanism for that change...think about what it is you are trying to change before you decide who should be the one to do it.
rachel, first off, you could just add your name where it says "name/url" without having to sign up for anything. that's what everyone else has done.
this last comment of yours is your best one because it actually says something. and let me first say that i am completely for women's rights and getting rid of the glass ceiling and all that jazz. i'm so there with you on that. here's where we differ.
while all you said about the history of sexism is almost certainly true (i don't doubt your knowledge of that), i do not think people are railing against her in this election, or why "boy" is against her and saying we should wait for a better woman, because she IS a woman or that we're holding women in general to a higher standard. we're saying, as a person she is sheisty. she is completely untrustworthy. her "experience" is limited to the over exaggerations of her time as first lady having tea and crumpets with world leaders while hoping to convince them to, in short, "give peace a chance." i know i oversimplified that but i don't have time to elaborate on that thought.
if hillary wasn't hillary. if it was some other woman senator from wherever i would judge her as equally as i do obama and mccain. i would judge her based on who she is and what she's done. unfortunately we have hillary who has a laundry list of problems with telling the truth. she is snide and ruthless and will do anything to win just for the sake of winning. meanwhile, obama has been nothing but cordial, honest, and respectful of every american's integrity and intelligence.
that's the difference. it's not because she's a woman. i'm not holding her to a higher standard. who she is as a person...well, to be blunt just effing blows.
That's well and good if you believe Hillary is the best candidate. Vote for her. I happen to disagree. The blatant lying to the American people about her "experience" is pretty inexcusable. If Obama was caught in a lie that contrived I would lose all respect for the man. We shouldn't allow that/reward that in politics, the business world, or our schools. It bothers me that lying has become the acceptable thing to do in today's society.
I wasn't holding Hillary to a higher standard than the men. I was holding them to the same standard. Like I just said, if Obama or McCain did that I would not be able to vote for them either. Such blatant disregard for the truth is again, inexcusable in my book. Fudge the facts a little if you have to, but add in sniper fire? come on...
We are told to expect lies from our politicians. Ugh... what a sad commentary on our country.
Whoever wins I just want them to win on their intelligence, integrity, and honesty and not which lies they could slide by the American people. Not their gender, race, age, etc....
was it a lie or a "misspeak"?
a lie.
a misspeak is saying you went to disney land when you meant disney world. things that can get confused. adding sniper fire and danger that wasn't there is a lie.
in case you missed the story:
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/sleuth/2008/03/sinbad_unloads_on_hillary_clin.html
in case you didn't know, ryrowe was being sarcastic. but yea, basically tuesday proved nothing. what happened was expected. now all obama has to do is win indiana and she's done. she will lose oregon and north carolina for sure.
i figured as much, but I couldn't risk it. ; )
for kicks, i'll throw my personal opinion into the mix.
i have to second cpunch. it is NOTHING against women. it is against hillary. i value women and believe women may be better suited for politics, if i'm completely honest.
but i kind of see hillary being the man in this election, and obama being a bit more feminine in the characteristics i am looking for.
i want someone confident. i want someone decisive. but hillary has some traits i see (and dislike) in bush. she has made her decisions. she will do anything to win. her speech seems formulated and unnatural. mechanical. but most importantly, i think she will stick to her beliefs and not change them for anything.
obama seems like a person that surrounds himself with differing opinions, and listens to all of them. he explains how he comes to a decision. he doesn't ask me to trust blindly in him.
and that alone makes me trust him just that blindly. i believe he will listen to sides, and then make the best choices when there are pros and cons either way.
and my last opinion, and others may argue this is not that important, but... the president represents our country. s/he is the one that speaks for all of us, to us and to the world. is it so bad to ask that this person be inspirational when they speak? to make me want to be a better person? to believe i can make a difference?
i get that from obama. i could get that same feeling from a woman, but hillary is not the one.
love,
steve
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